what is gavin menzies’ theory

By and large, you don't need a professor to realise that some critics are just trying to find holes to dig and explore, so as to satisfy their own egos. A few plant nothing more? As compared to the bloodsheds and humans lives lost in the later EUROPEAN invasions, China was like an angel then. Ultimately, they shall reveal, in Time to come, the true History which we are all arguing about. Felipe Vilchis --‘HLA genes and the origin of the Amerindians’ in Genética Biomedicina Molecular 200 Resume GY E02, Monterey, Mexico (trans. Used by China for paper, cloth, oil and many other uses, it's history dates back to 1000 B.C. KMS. Mr. Furnish, do you speak or read Chinese? he is an author. This story is undoubtedly true and just as incredible in its own way. But Menzies only claims there is such evidence. Señores y señoras: yes, we have give credit to the development of global intelligence of the West and their expansion. And certianly not the Earth, which includes her seasonal winds, currents, magnetic fields and poles, the horizon, and many many others. What Menzies is doing is guesswork. Gavin Menzies in his book "1421, the year China discovered the world" (2005, Betseller in the United States), states that Chinese ships under the direction of Zheng He a sailor and Chinese adventurer, reached the shores of America (probably in what is now the coasts of the States of Guerrero or Oaxaca, in Mexico) in 1418 (due to the dating of the world map below), 74 years … 1421, and Gavin Menzies’ books of crazy. After all is said and done, I'll just like to say this: to each his own, Mr Furnish. Menzies has no "smoking gun" that proves his theory-- because the To KMS But that is the mindset of the Chinese then, Can we blame Confucius ? Quantity alone is no substitute for quality. Questionable speculative leaps are also Menzies's stock-in-trade. [37] Geoff Wade, a senior research fellow at the Asia Research Institute of the National University of Singapore, acknowledges that there was a cross exchange of technological ideas between Europe and China, but ultimately classifies Menzies' book as historical fiction and asserts that there is "absolutely no Chinese evidence" for a maritime venture to Italy in 1434. Who could have charted and surveyed these lands before they were 'discovered'? Mainstream Sinologists and professional historians have universally rejected 1421 and the alternative history of Chinese exploration described in it as pseudohistory. They were just seeking shelters in distant land to survive. Mr Menzies has already wrote so specifically THAT, if and ever if, the Chinese were the ones who ruled the world, it would certainly have come to be a much much more pleasant and peaceful place to live in, for from the Emperor right down to the commoners, everyone in that era were eager to learn, and willing to share and trade. Noah A. Rosenberg -- ‘Genetic structure of human populations’ in Science Vol 298 20 December 2002. that links American Indians to the Chinese; wrecks of Chinese ships and medieval Please stop the ad hominem attacks and tell me just exactly WHERE I am wrong in my criticisms. When Gavin Menzies isn’t twisting facts to fit his theory, he becomes a bad version of Paul Theroux writing about his travel adventures. and in those Scotish plaids ? I've been curious about these mysterious stones for years - 1421's theory makes the most sense. Gavin Menzies, a British author, believes that the Chinese were the first people to discover America through Zheng He, a Muslim eunuch. oceangoing ships backed up by a sophisticated, prosperous and powerful state. Likewise, where is the documented evidence of the alleged anchors off California? This is PURE childishness. Could all these taxation and payments to the warlords had the Europeans motivated for their navigation ? Have Maya scholars translated the Maya glyphs on this stone? In the past there were a lot more 'unofficial' explorers who searched around the seas to make a profit for themselves. - A. Amazing how people can only see what they want to see. An article by Geoff Wade describing 1421 as a fairytale and fiction. 1) How strange. I'm a reserve Navy officer and I like reading history books. I think that history has already proved the facts stated by Mr. Menzies. Sure DNA evidence is good evidence. Gavin McInnes is a 50-year-old Canadian writer, comic and political commentator who is best known for co-founding Vice media and leading the hipster nationalist group Proud Boys. 7. Gavin Menzies, a former British Royal Navy officer, argues in the bestseller Mr. Furnish, Ph.D., is Assistant Professor, World History, Georgia Perimeter College. 1) Is there one earth one people who have ever pretended to have found America before Columbus? here is a short and vastly incomplete part of his DNA evidence off of his website that I invite you to view since you complain of his lack of evidence (http://www.1421.tv/pages/evidence/index.asp) [7][15] Menzies states in the introduction that the book is an attempt to answer the question: "On some early European world maps, it appears that someone had charted and surveyed lands supposedly unknown to the Europeans. xenophobic Confucian officials who advised the later Ming emperors destroyed His method of "proving" his thesis is very close to Von Daniken's so-called proof that space travelling aliens instigated the building of ancient pyramids, roads and stutuary. If the seamanship and navigation aren't watertight then the book has sunk - long before it reaches the Americas or anywhere else! You may also want to look closely at some of the other sketch maps in the book which show ocean currents. This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Gavin Menzies article. is he an honest researcher or he is only somebody that has found a good way for earning much money? Amy, please tell me just which of my comments were "bitter," and how so. sources--a problem even if one accepts that the records were all destroyed. When I've read about half the book I had changed my mind. Using genes to reconstruct human history in Polynesia.’ You can find details at http://www.teamworkfilms.com Here's to great explorers and mathematicians! This is my pretext for the voyages of the Europeans .. Could there be the Italians travellers , journeys made by Polo had them inspired ? A study last year said the ink on the parchment map was made in the 20th century. There's no reason to believe that Chinese seafarers would have been any less logical in their seamanship. If he has no documentation he is just blowing hot air. Furthermore, Regiomontanus could rely on practices with remainder tables from the abacus tradition. But, what if this method was to be apply to much more problematic subject, such as the Shoa... While I defend the more "whole" or more comphrensive in the reasoning process versus the reactionary thinking process of "rationalizing". You guys are supposed to be fascinated with possible revelations about history. This is how Zheng He’s story and accomplishment had been buried by the ignorance of the Ming court and later repeated by the Manchurian Qing dynasty again – the same fear of the Southen Barbarians, the ignorance of the sea power and the naval forces and the eventual Opium war. 'There is no evidence this is a forged titanium dioxide ink,' said Ms Olin, whose paper appears in the December issue of the journal Analytical Chemistry. Or Chinese had been far more pragmatic to try to not to use "intelligence" for war, conquest and grab land ? "As I tell my college world history students, the most likely candidate for future world domination in 1400 certainly would have been China, with its huge oceangoing ships backed up by a sophisticated, prosperous and powerful state." He claims that a letter written in 1474 by Paolo dal Pozzo Toscanelli and found amongst the private papers of Columbus indicates that an earlier Chinese ambassador had direct correspondence with Pope Eugene IV in Rome. History can be re-written and re-made, but stars don't. Two things first. Have you read the book word for word, cover to cover? THEN, Menzies started the analysis of Waldseemüller map. But a small group of scholars and hobbyists, led by Gavin Menzies, a former British Navy submarine commander, argue that Zheng He traveled much farther than most Chinese and Western scholars say. Gavin Menzies' Theory This theory was created by Gavin Menzies. No, it gives him insight into HOW the Chinese (or, for that matter, Ottomans or Arabs or Omanis) MIGHT have done it....not THAT they indeed DID it! He states that ‘the coast of East Africa is depicted with such accuracy that it appears to be drawn with the aid of satellite navigation.’ Compare the Cantino map with the map in a modern school atlas and note all the errors. Sea. The missing currents move in the opposite direction to the other currents which are shown. This is not a ‘mistake’. All research and guesses, for all historical events, are to be respected for, BEFORE the real evidence surfaces. Multi-mast ships - like squareriggers and junks - sail 30 to 45 degrees either side of downwind, otherwise the aftmost sail blocks the wind from reaching the others. This article first appeared in the Atlanta Journal Constitution and is reprinted with permission. So if you have a spare hour, why don't you write a introduction to "1421" from an historian's point of view. Let's celebrate them all! [16] He never attended university[15] and had no formal training in historical studies. Gavin Menzies had the idea to write his first book after he and his wife Marcella visited the Forbidden City for their twenty-fifth wedding anniversary. With regard to seamanship - For obvious reasons, competent seamen did not plan exploration voyages in the way that the author describes. The main point is that the dangers were unknown. Chinese anchors found in California. --> Yet you only give one example? Se debe de corregir en el libro de 1941,el año que china descubrio' el mundo. (Because that's not very professional.). Take care and goodbye. Also very professional.) Gavin Menzies’ Lost Empire of Atlantis is far too long to go through line by line the way I do with ancient astronaut theorists’ threadbare efforts, so you will forgive me if my review is somewhat spottier than past practice. In the map showing North Atlantic ocean currents the very important Labrador current has also been deleted and you may also want to ask yourself why this was done? It isn't so difficult for an objective reader to identify the many flaws and distortions in the author's ideas - especially where seamanship, navigation and oceanography are concerned. " - A bad comparison. Historians have rejected Menzies' theories and assertions[4][5][6][7][8] and have categorised his work as pseudohistory.[9][10][11]. reminds the reader of, his own naval expertise which gives him a mystical understanding Stubborn, close-minded academia rears its bitter head yet again in review written by Furnish. After feeling a certain creeping scepticism I was also happy to find Tim's interesting criticism. Has the critic ever thought of a simple fact - to declare to the world that he is the ex-Commanding Officer of the Royal Navy Submarine, and then to have no claims from the Royal Navy side that he is a Fraud, that itself speaks volume of his experience. (Porto, Portugal), Hello. There are many other examples but it would be wearisome to note them all. odd trivia: in duncan j watts "six degrees", he mentioned that the black plague in the late fourteenth century that originated in southern italy may have been imported from china by ship??!! It is not guesswork. Menzies and Hudson offer a revolutionary new alternative to the traditional “Beringia” theory, (which suggests that ancient man crossed a land … that this proves the Chinese were there. The secret data they collected, eventually leaked out in lots of different ways at different times and gradually became incorporated into the official maps. More seriously, one could spend his next fourteen years stressing all the mistakes of the book. Authors that aim to rewrite 500 years of accepted history should rely less [15] In reaction to this criticism, Menzies has dismissed the experts' opinions as irrelevant, stating, "The public are on my side, and they are the people who count. 1421: The Year China Discovered America, that squadrons from Zheng He's Menzies agreed to rewrite it, but admitted that he was "not a natural writer" and requested Bonomi to rewrite the first three chapters for him. parts of North and South America and some Atlantic islands, were used by European Except pygmies I don't think so. [36] Martin Kemp, Professor of the History of Art at Oxford University, questions the rigor of Menzies' application of the historical method, and in regard to European illustrations purporting to be copied from the Chinese Nong Shu, writes that Menzies "says something is a copy just because they look similar. And further, there is an EVEN wider gulf between an experienced sailor and a Commander of a Royal Navy. Rowan Gavin Paton Menzies (born 14 August 1937) is a British author and retired submarine lieutenant-commander who has written books promoting claims that the Chinese sailed to America before Columbus. First, let me state I WANT to be a believer in Mr. (or is it Capt.) In the Hall of Ma'at. Having said that, Menzies is making some really fascinating leaps of faith and raising all kinds of interesting ideas, especially about the longitude. Where on earth can you show 'REAL evidence' of, say a thousand years' old civilisation, if DNA and carbon-dating aren't even your top choice for evidence and history-writting? [15], The finished copy of the book was published in 2002 as 1421: The Year China Discovered the World (published as 1421: The Year China Discovered America in the United States). Is that naive to think the Chinese instead to use the manpower that had made the "Great wall" to battle and to conquer the West instead to "conceal" themselves in this land of the "Center" ? First I'd like to underline what seems to me a very important issue, M. Menzies' book doesn't fallow usually a very "scientific" method to prove his claims (which doesn't mean that he's always wrong). This collision punched a hole in Endurance but did not damage Rorqual. - Your English is good - I wish that '1421' could have made as much sense.) Mr. Poon: - The ocean currents which have been deleted from the map of the south Atlantic refers to the map in chapter 4 (page 95 of the hard cover edition) and not to the Piri Reis map. As we speak , the Eurpeans and the Americans are repeatedly medalling and honoring one and another as Blair will be receiving medals from the US and Blair and Bush both have been named for the Nobel Prize for being “successful” invaders and intruders into Iraq. that landlubbers lack; for example, "if I was able to state with confidence --> Often, but is that most of the time or just the four that you cite? of this theory, he offers no proof, only a great deal of circumstantial evidence Chinese seamen were much better than that ! One minds owns business - We have a restaurant owner here who had kept is "pancake" formula for over 50 years :) What about Coca Cola and Pepsi cola. century Chinese shipwrecks have been found in New Zealand; and says that a Taiwanese How can one scientific community say as proof that Chinese rescources were in America, and then say this man is wrong? [17] He often refers back to his sea-faring days to support claims made in 1421. Some scholars have speculated that Columbus could have used the map to find the New World in 1492. There are one thousand and one points in the book, from the Maize to the chickens and horses, from the wall drawings to folk tales, from the Asian physical features to cultural practices, and we onlysee people coming up and asking 'Where is the map? Both recorded events of this world with utmost objectivity, and all is written down with great accuracy. Menzies says that America west coast is clearly marked and he can recognize many spots... but in that map there is no west coast. If he has been working on this book for 14 years what did he do for the 20 years before that? [33] Academics have emphatically rejected all of this "evidence" as worthless and have criticized what American history professor Ronald H. Fritze calls the "almost cult-like" manner in which Menzies continues to drum up support for his hypothesis. However, researchers from University College in London examined the ink on the map and announced last summer that it cannot be more than 500 years old. ", "BEST SELLERS: January 26, 2003 – Page 2", "Joint Statement on the Claims by Gavin Menzies Regarding the Zheng He Voyages", "Zheng He in the Americas and Other Unlikely Tales of Exploration and Discovery", "1421: The Year China Discovered the World", "The "Liu/Menzies" World Map: A Critique", "What is the Least Credible History Book in Print? Los declaro "descubiertos". We all have known how many herbal formulas, martial art knowldge and even "culinary" arts that are and still well concealed. Interesting work, but as similarly unconvincing as Menzie's work is proclaimed to be. 6. naval expeditions, commissioned by the Ming Emperor Zhu Di and commanded by The map has been dated to around 1440. Can you hear me now...I think you're a closet case Menzies supporter by getting us lowly plebians all riled up! That is why it was never done in that way. However, that's only something that has happened recently. I look forward to serious scholars testing every one of his hypotheses. : the sun rises from the East is a fact; the Truth? just plain contradicts himself, as when he asserts that "sea levels in The first one concerns a bunch of randomly-timed ancient voyages, mostly one-way trips, over the course of several millennia. It has so many common points with the western ones that it makes think more than reasonably, that there had to be a common source: could it be a lost civilization, maybe the same one which has been chased by thousands years so far?” Have you seen this before? In that intelligence is a common fact, of course, there the the many levels of intelligence with all the complexity and all the subject matters world and in ou universe. :-) There's an Oriental thought that I'd just like to share, before disappearing from this place for good:- 'If one is to point his or her finger to a fully-rounded moon, though the person may not be perfect, it doesn't stop the moon from being so.' Would he be as so confused as the critic have said, he would have the submarine sunk aeons ago. "Second, he adduces allegedly tangible evidence of pre-Columbian contact between Asia and the Americas, such as: flora and fauna (maize, sweet potatoes, Asiatic chickens, coconuts) that must have been transported by humans; "DNA evidence" that links American Indians to the Chinese; wrecks of Chinese ships and medieval Chinese anchors found in California." One of the more obvious clues is the crude attempt to distort details on the Piri Reis maps which can be seen in chapter 5. -- Steve Weatherbe (Interesting the Finnish language is structurally similar to Korean) But I give credit where credit is due - the Chinese were/are amazing, and Menzies is right. Menzies claimed that the knowledge of the winds, currents, and sea conditions that he gained on this voyage was essential to reconstructing the 1421 Chinese voyage that he discusses in his first book. Are the four examples that you list the crux of the argument, or just four at random? Menzies retired the following year, and stood unsuccessfully as an independent candidate in Wolverhampton South West during the 1970 United Kingdom general election, where—standing against Enoch Powell—he called for unrestricted immigration to Great Britain, drawing 0.2% of the vote. As copied from the Singapore's 27/11/2003 Newspaper. in 1421 is much like that delivered at the United Nations recently by Secretary This video talks about a famous example of bad history: 1421 by Gavin Menzies. Dr. Geoff Wade, a historian with the National University of Singapore, has written extensively in an effort to debunk Gavin Menzies and the 1421 theory, even going so far as filing a complaint in the United Kingdom against the publishers of Menzies' book for marketing it as a history. It is a compilation of data from older maps and records which was commissioned by Admiral Piri (and his nephew) for presentation to the Sultan of the Turkish Empire. ", In the book, Menzies concludes that only China had the time, money, manpower, and leadership to send such expeditions and then sets out to prove that the Chinese visited lands unknown in either China or Europe. My Turkish friend believes that the Ancient Chinese and Turks shared the same blood line and have had long history of good relationships. What he says is only an extention of knowledge already stated. A couple of years ago, I read a book by Gavin Menzies which I had picked up in a second-hand bookshop. They did not carry excess baggage in the shape of giant floating palaces- nor did they encumber themselves with thousands of useless mouths to be fed on the voyage. In comparison, only 40 years after Columbus potatoes where well known in Italy. But prior to that, in what the Arabs and their caravans via the silk route whom had brought the West the niceties of the Orient ? I am not here to show you our cultural “chauvnism” but I salute Gavin Menzies imagination, audacities or even if there is the element of being a “machievellian” prince for he is got the right time, the right moment and the right subject matter to rally all of Geographic societies to “rethink” of the discoveries in America. Recently posted: an asteroid impact in 1422 created a huge tsunami, wrecking several ships of the Chinese fleet, slamming them into New Zealand. JF. Funny how history does repeat itself. The West were always curious of the goods from Asia, the production sources...and when silk were taxed in Constantinople in excess of 1000 %. I like that much better, for "sym" also come closer being "syn" or being Kind. Again, dispute over ink crystals' age, BUT carbon-14 dating PROVES map's authencity of claim - made around 1434. [27], Menzies has created a website for his readers to send him any information they can find that might support his hypothesis. Gavin Menzies (Royal Navy Submarine Commanding Officer, retired) first went to China in 1937, where he spent the first two years of his life. Nowadays, we think of the sea as a barrier - in the past they thought of the sea as a highway. Or in part , they lack the horses as the Mongols had in Gobi or beyond ? Salon has an article describing the book … However to further my analysis of the Piri Reis map, I've scanned the one in the book, then super impose it on top of the one I've found on the website, the only discrepancy I found was some notes that was enclosed in a frame to the right. If the map's been lost, where is the documentation proving it existed? - Again, Full-stop. Sometimes a third person's perspective is most important. [38], British naval officer and author of pseudohistory, Publication, claims, and commercial success. But chemist Jacqueline Olin, a retired researcher with the Smithsonian Institution in Washington, said on Tuesday her analysis shows the ink was made in mediaeval times. Menzies theories. Perhaps some hoaxers do have a capacity for hoaxing themselves- as well as others, but it really isn’t plausible that the author could be so confused about the basics of seamanship and navigation. [15] In 2004, historian Robert Finlay severely criticized Menzies in the Journal of World History for his "reckless manner of dealing with evidence" that led him to propose hypotheses "without a shred of proof". Inspiring and breathtaking! P.S. Matthew E Hurles -- ‘Native American Y chromosomes in Polynesia: The genetic impact of the Polynesian slave trade’ American Journal of Human Genetics. Menzies noticed that they kept encountering the year 1421 and, concluding that it must have been an extraordinary year in world history, decided to write a book about everything that happened in the world in 1421. Menzies’ theory that the Chinese discovered America. 10. Every flood, storm, typhoon and earthquake is an act of vengeance wreaked by some entity they have offended somehow. marred by questionable scholarship. 2. [15] Menzies holds that his website is "a focal point for ongoing research into pre-Columbian exploration of the world. I deleted the following unsourced statement from the "map" section of the article: "Gavin Menzies claims the map demonstrates that Zheng He sailed to the Americas and Australia." Historical records show Hemp was already in the new world when the first European colonist arrived, thought to have been introduced from China by explorers, migrating birds from across the Bering Strait, or possibly drifting shipwrecks.

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